GlassPearl.co.za/blog

By Craig on Mar 2, 2009 | Reply

Oh Abigail, you are so naive and completely out of sorts with politics in this country. Comment when you have something intellectual to say, instead of making stupid remarks about botox which has nothing to do with running a country or government.

By Anonymous on Mar 3, 2009 | Reply

Just to add an objective perspective, under the DA in Cape Town:

Cape Town’s gross geographic product increased by over 12% from R116.6 billion in 2005 – when the ANC governed – to R130.77bn in 2007, under DA rule.

Unemployment declined from 20.7% in 2005 to 17.9% in 2007, which is below the national average of 23.2%.

Within a year of taking over the city, the DA cut debt by nearly R1bn, using the extended capital for increasing service delivery by 15%.

The DA began supplying electricity to poor areas to which the ANC sought to block electricity provision.

They have been able to write off debt for the very poor to the value of R1.5-billion.

They have tripled the investment in infrastructure that benefits the public and supports the economy from an average of R1bn per year between 2002 and 2006, under the ANC, to R3.1 bn in 2008.

They have doubled the average annual rate of housing delivery, from the ANC’s average of 3 000 per year between 2002 and 2006 to an average of 7 000 per year between 2006 and 2008.

Crime in the CBD has gone down by 90% since 2000.

In 2006 the DA scrapped the BEE tender policy and implemented an open equity programme that encourages greater numbers of bidders to apply. The result has been a 10% increase in the number of contracts awarded to BEE companies.

In 2007, Cape Town was awarded the Department of Environmental Affairs and Tourism’s annual Cleanest Metro award.

Helen Zille was awarded world mayor of the year.

Budget expenditure has increased to 94% from 60% under the ANC.

The only municipality in S.A to be awarded an ISO certification for water provision.

The only city in S.A to have an unqualified audit from the A.G.

Certainly blows your criticism of the DA out the water.

By JP on Mar 9, 2009 | Reply

This will be the last comment I make about you Abigail. You are a silly little girl that is constantly looking for attention, I have quickly read a few of your articles and I have to say that they are all very mediocre. If I was your editor… you wouldn’t have a job for very long…

You get your name out there by being controversial… and the only plan of action you have for being controversial is by simply being rude and insulting, and by playing on peoples emotions with what you write. And then you probably end up thinking you are extremely clever??? I can only think of you as nothing but a silly little girl throwing a tantrumn in the mall if she doesn’t get her way…

“The only people seeing that the City of Cape Town is running any better than before are Helen Zille and her supporters and that’s because they see what they want to see. They don’t believe anyone with a dark skin has enough sense to govern.” This comment alone proves how pathetic you really are! You don’t have anything intelligent to say.

By WaZzA on Mar 9, 2009 | Reply

“Hedging her bets”? Its simply choosing a platform that will give her more influence after the elections. The DA know that the ANC will still win a majority, so Helen Zille has to ask herself, wil she be in a better position to influence policy as leader of the opposition or as premier of the Western Cape? The choice is clear and there is nothing wrong with that.

By anon. on Mar 9, 2009 | Reply

All this debate around rotten SA politics – a complete waste of time.As a resident of the Western Cape I advocate cesession or at the very least financial and political autonomy from the rest of RSA.

By anon. on Mar 9, 2009 | Reply

The sooner the people of the Western Cape realise that our future will be better off under a Cape Republic the better. The Western Cape is responsible for 54% of the countries agricultural earnings, the most tourism out of any province (therefor foreign exchange), the lowest un-employemnt rate as well as best academic results. We may be linked to the rest of RSA by common history, but nostalgia alone is no reason to allow ourselves to continue to have this millstone around our necks which is a badly governed RSA. It should be put to the people of the Western Cape in a referendum at the very least.

By WaZzA on Mar 9, 2009 | Reply

You are taking statements completely out of their context. Zille has said on many occasions that the DA will be RSA’s offical opposition, and in this election will gain more support. A question for you Abigail do you really in your heart believe that the ANC or COPE would do a better job than the DA?

By WaZzA on Mar 9, 2009 | Reply

Yes they did re-launch Abigail and yes they positioned themselves as an alternative. But Zille herself has said since that they will be the opposition.
That aside though how can you really beleive that the ANC has been good for black people?

Un-employemnt still huge, HIV and crime are at crisis point – BEE has served to enrich the same select few over and over again, affirmative action has resulted in a massive brain drain. The corruption that is now rife in every government dep. grew into a lifeforce of its own under the ANC and in saying as much the amount of money stolen from the South African tax payer has been mind blowing. We have +-7 million illegal immigrants in the country, zenophobic outbreaks last year resulting in many dead.The arms deal fiasco, the polokwane debacle and now Malema.. How has the ANC been any good for anybody except the ANC?

By anon. on Mar 9, 2009 | Reply

No I am dead serious Abigail – If people did the math and actually worked out what the central government is taking from the Western Cape (by way of taxes, VAT etc.)and what we get back from them in return (very little) it would be obvious that autonomy would make sense.
A different side to the coin for me at least ,as a coloured guy I can say that the NP did squat for us historically, but that wasnt in my lifetime so my concern is the present and the ANC sadly has done what feels like even less for us with the exception of lip service when it wants our votes. Under a Cape Republic I feel that the coloured’s would finally get the influence over our lives and future we deserve and that is fair. For all the people of the Cape black white indian and coloured an independent Cape would make sense.

By anon. on Mar 9, 2009 | Reply

Autonomy and self determination are not concepts that are funny – Judging by your blogs and comments you are highly opinionated yet when someone presents you with facts you simply ignore them or reply with a one liner misquoting what the person said. Such as the previous gentleman talking on the DA’s achievemnets in CT – which are in fact all true(if you bother to research them) and you reply with the one liner – “objective I think not” yet you dont bother to acknowlege any of these points made by that gentleman.

Now on my comment – when did I say Gauteng’s contibution was worthless? Exactly I didnt, I said we get back very little concidering what we give and thats true.

You then reply with I never said they were worthless, just saying that we put more into the central government kitty than what we get out.

By anon. on Mar 9, 2009 | Reply

Autonomy and self determination are not concepts that are funny – Judging by your blogs and comments you are highly opinionated yet when someone presents you with facts you simply ignore them or reply with a one liner misquoting what the person said. Such as the previous gentleman talking on the DA’s achievemnets in CT – which are in fact all true(if you bother to research them) and you reply with the one liner – “objective I think not” yet you dont bother to acknowlege any of these points made by that gentleman.

Now on my comment – when did I say Gauteng’s contibution was worthless? Exactly I didnt, I said we get back very little concidering what we give and thats true.

By Clubber on Mar 10, 2009 | Reply

Abigail you are ducking and diving the questions that participants on your blog have asked you – especially those from ‘Wazza’. In point form kindly answer these questions:

(a) Is it perfectly acceptable that the leader of your organization faces over 700 charges of Corruption, Fraud & Racketeering and had a confirm corrupt relatonship with the criminal Shabir Shaik ?

(b) Is it perfectly acceptable for the future president of this country to rape woman and have less than a Standard 3 Education ?

(c) Is it acceptable that over half the candidates on the ANC’s national list are either former criminals or people currently under investigation for various crimes such as fraud, tax evasion etc. ? (E.g. Winnie Mandela, Tony Yengeni … this list goes on)

(d) Is it acceptable to have a so-called ‘Youth leader’ who has a ‘G’ for Woodwork going on about how he will ‘kill for Zuma’ ?

(e)Is it acceptable that South Africa has the highest rate of crime in the world ?

(f) It is acceptable that South Africa has the highest incidences of HIV infection in the world ?

(g) Why did Mr. Jacob Zuma state towards the end of last year that he is happy to debate policy with any leader in the country, yet Mrs. Helen Zille has challenged him to a public debate note once, but four times to date and he keeps declining ?

(e) Why when challenged to a public debate recently by the DA Youth League did Mr. Julius Malema state ‘I do not debate with Garden boys’ ? Surely Mr. Malema is being Racist in making these remarks and like Mr. Zuma seems to be teriffied in engaging in debate about issues affecting all South Africans lives ?

(f) Is it acceptable that an ANC administration has supported and kept the ruling Zanu-PF party and dictator Robert Mugabe in ‘business’ in Zimbabwe and indirectly resulted in the continued destruction of that country ?

(g) Would you describe the ANC as a totally honest, corruption free organization that has ALWAYS put the interests of the people ahead of the party’s interests ?

Kindly answer these questions in point form.

By Clubber on Mar 10, 2009 | Reply

Abigail,

Shooooooooooo, you are very opionated are you not ? You also like to draw a lot of assumptions and we all know what assumptions are. There a very big difference between opinion, assumptions and FACT. Let’s try and stick to a few FACTS because these can not be argued e.g. FACT: Zimbabwe has the highest rate of inflation in the world. Now that we have something that we both can agree on, let me start by saying that this certainly has nothing to do with me being only satisfied when you admit you are wrong. What this has to do with is your applying some common sense in your arguments with people and looking at FACTS – not your OPINION. Opinion or assumptions are always up for argument, but FACTS can never be disputed unless of course you are brain damaged. I appreciate your answering my questions because we now have a proper platform to debate the merits and de-merits of the ANC. Below is my reply:

1. So if you believe that Jacob Zuma should not be the president of South Africa why are you then voting for the ANC in the first place ? A vote for the ANC is a vote for Jacob Zuma – simple as that and that my friend is a FACT. Regardless of weather your vote is at National or Provincial level, your vote ANC, you voting for Jacob Zuma as the ANC has become ‘Jacob Zuma’. In case you not following recent developments the reason the ANC has split in the first place is because 59% of ANC members voted for Zuma at Polokwane in December 2007 and 41% supported our good friend Thabo. Since Zuma has become ANC president he has pushed out all those ANC members who don’t support him and surrounded himself with ‘yes men’. People like Malema, Mantashe etc. Weather you like or not, the ANC is now Jacob Zuma (Pty) Ltd. That is also a FACT – if it was not, then COPE would never have resulted.

2. We both can agree on this point 100%. Yes – he did rape that woman and yet while we agree on this issue, you still contradict yourself later with the statement ‘Over all they meet my needs politically – I agree with MORE of their policies than any other political party’. What ‘policies’ are you reffering to here as a president / CEO / BOSS … call him what you want of an organization who himself is corrupt to the bone and also a rapist does not bode well for future policy now does it ???

3. Ah yes, but Mr. Yengeni was sentenced to more than 1-year and he on the ANC’s national list ? Let me rather re-phrase the question here: Do you believe that provided someone who has a criminal record, has served their time that they should be allowed to be involved in public office ? In other words if a chap like J. Arthur Brown from Fidentia served for example 2 years in prison and the ANC hired him as their next finance minister would they be 100% acceptable to you ?

4. So you are of the OPIONIN then that people with dismal academic records are perfectly suited to become possibly the future leader of a country ? Would you require an education then to administer a business ?

5 & 6. See now this is spoken like a true ANC cadre. When you guys are unable to answer the question because perhaps it cuts a little too close to the truth out comes the ‘let’s blaim Apartheid’ or the Race Card. Those are tried and tested ANC responses to failures of the organization. See Abigail that is exactly what is wrong with the ANC. All your failures you have to blaim on the previous government. Is it not easy Abigail to just say: Ja … Crime is out of control, but it was the NATS fault ? Your mob has been running the show here for the past 15 years and I am afraid that after 15 years, even the most Die Hard supporters of the organization would concur that this is a long enough period of time to address issues such as Crime and HIV. While I agree with you that it is not the government’s responsobility to make sure every person wears a condom during sexual intercourse, it is the governments duty to ensure that the public is educated concerning the dangers of unprotected sex. This is clearly not helped by the ANC’s ‘Dr. Beetroot’, their constant denial about HIV and of course the president of the organization ‘taking a shower’ to reduce the risks of HIV. Come on Abigail – this made the ANC the embarrasment of the rest of the world!! You can’t tell me that these are the policies you ‘agree MORE’ with than other political parties who have addressed the issues of Crime & HIV very effectively in their election manifesto’s ?

7 & 8: See now this is once more you opinion which may I say is also very racist. Firstly the term ‘garden boy’ is racist. It is perfectly acceptable for Malema to refer to people as ‘Garden Boys’, but yet let another party refer to him as a ‘Garden Boy’ and it would be deemed racist. You next state that Helen Zille represents a ‘minority of people’. Are you implying this ‘minority of people’ to be Whites ? Next you go on to say there is nothing to talk about. Once more your OPINION and NOT FACT. There is plenty to debate about. Issues that affect all South Africans. Surely it a public debate between Zuma & Zille would allows voters the opportunity to ask both these respective leaders questions pertaining to South Africa and we could then formulate an idea of they each would handle the same challenge if in office representing the people of this country ? See Abigail you dismiss immediately a debate because in your heart you know that Helen Zille did not become world major of the year for being a Munpura. She would absolutely crucify Jacob Zuma and Julius Malema on every subject and they could never allow a woman, let alone a white woman put them to shame. We all know how Zuma & Malema feel about woman. Zuma rapes them and Malema then says ‘They enjoyed it – that’s why they asked for Taxi money the next day’. See here you are saying that you agree MORE with the ANC policies than any other political party, yet a debate between the respective parties is the perfect platform for you to see opposition policy yet in your mind ‘there is nothing to debate’.

9. No Abigail – the Zimbabwean people tried to decide their own fate by voting against Mugabe in the last elections which he rigged and that is how he remained in power and continues to remain in power. The ANC has supported Mugabe’s regime from the very outset because Mugabe helped former ANC cadres during the ‘struggle years’. They ‘owe’ Mugabe and that is why they never applied sactions or took military action to depose of Mugabe. This indicates how little you actually understand about politics and then want to write blogs going on about issues such as Helen Zille’s use of Botox which really has nothing to do with politics. Robert Mugabe is huge mates with the ANC. The ANC even has certain mines in Zimbabwe for which it serves their interests to keep Mugabe in power and allow the situation in Zimbabwe to never improve. These are FACTS my friend and there is plenty of books I am happy to send you with all this information for you to read. Your vote for the ANC is a vote indirectly for Robert Mugabe, yet you ‘loathe Mugabe’. You hate Zuma but will vote ANC. You hate Mugabe but will vote ANC. Go figure.

10: You remain a supporter even though you don’t support Zuma for president. Makes absolutely no sense at all. Do you think the ANC is going to improve under a Zuma administration ? When the leader of the organization is corrupt to the bone how exactly is he going to ‘eliminate corruption’ in the organization like his promising to do ? Your vote for the ANC is a vote for Zuma as I explained above, yet you delude yourself that you voting for the ‘ANC’ and NOT Jacob Zuma. Where have you been these last few years ?? Living in a cave somewhere under the sea ? Zuma and the ANC are one and the same thing and they are controlled now by the communists being the SACP & COSATU. The ANC was and I repeat … WAS once a great liberation movement under the likes of Tambo, Mandela, Luthuli etc., however they are a pale shadow of themselves. Tambo must be rolling in his grave watching this current mob jostle for power and control. You state that the ANC has better policies than the opposition, yet when it is suggested by Zuma himself that he will debate anyone in public and Helen Zille steps up to the plate, suddendly he runs the other way because he knows that many of the ANC’s policies are a complete failure. The ANC has failed the people of South Africa in key areas as follows:

(a) Education – Absolutely stinks. The NATS education was among the best in the entire world yet under ANC rule our education standards are now amongst the lowest in the world. FACT.

(b) Law & Order – Crime is rampant. FACT. The highest rape incidences in the world are testament to the ANC’s complete failure in this regard as well as having people such as Jackie Selebi who are also criminals chief of police.

(c) Infrastructure. Under the ‘previous regime’ we had a surplas of Electricity and had to mouthball power stations. Under ANC administration we have a shortage of power. Furthermore the Water infrastructure in this country is due for collapse in 2011. ANC policy is such that Arms deals and 4×4′s for the Tony Yengeni’s of this world are more important than infrastructure.

(d) Health systems – we have probably the worst government hospitals in the world. Previously South African medicine was amongst the best in the world. ANC failed policy has led to the destruction of public health.

The list goes on and on yet you try to argue with ‘Wazza’ that because the ANC introduced the NCA they are a success! In fact my friend it was actually the Apartheid ‘regime’ that saved this country from having its banks taken out in the Global Credit crunch thanks to something called ‘Exchange Controls’. That my friend is what protected our banks – not the ANC’s NCA. Yes – I applaud the ANC for the NPA – one of the very few bits of good they have done to this country, but overall they are a failure – plain and simple. They inherited the finest infrastructure in the world from the NATS and have managed to FUCK it all up in the space of 15 years – not bad going ANC.

By Mark Turpin on Mar 10, 2009 | Reply

Hi Abigail
Well done for sticking to your views despite the abuse!
You might be interested to see my latest posting – and I am sure I will get similar abuse – already I have had my first comment from an anonymous person!
People just do not like anyone saying anything critical about Zille, and certainly don’t like her being compared to Malema. Malema has been like a secret weapon for the ANC, and she has walked right into it!
Mark

By WaZzA on Mar 10, 2009 | Reply

Trevor Manuel was a good minister of finance and that cant be argued – the credit act was a positive piece of legislation – But truthfuly exchange controls which were implemented a long time back are the real reason that South African banks were saved from the global financial crisis.

This historically racist perception of the DA in nonsensicle when you consider that the DA actively fought against the policies of the apartheid governemnt – granted they didnt take up arms but it was alot more than alot of whites were doing. The DA is viewed as racist or elitest when it suits the ANC and its cadres but also when it suits them they will get into bed with even bigger rasicts The NNP under Martinus Van Schalkwyk a case in point.

You mention the people that have been given water and housing, schools etc. – but far more are sitting without and waiting… Obviously all problems have their root causes and one cannot deny that the homeland policy was to blame for many social ills this country has faced – but one would think during the first 15years of a liberation struggle’s time in office they would make an all out attempt to alleviate poverty and crime instead of lining the pockets of the same few over and over again.

We can not use the “homelands” or any other apartheid creation to defend the ANC’s mismanagement of RSA over the last 15 years. One would need a whole website dedicated to the subject to list the wrongs and injustices of apartheid. But by using one to make the other seem ok is just plain ridiculous.

You mention the funding that was given to your sector now by government, which never recieved funding before – Shame on the NP government of old for not providing this funding. But do you not think that even more could have been provided or earmarked for this purpose considering how much is bieng looted daily from our good people by way of corruption?

Think long and hard Abigail as not to be personal but I think you are very confused. You going to vote only provincially so as not support Zuma? You dislike Mugabe yet the ANC has kept him in power? you dont support Zuma or Malema but you will still vote ANC? They “overall” meet your political needs? Come on Abigail…

By Clubber on Mar 11, 2009 | Reply

Abigail you seriously need to read the comments people post on your Blog properly before you formulate a response because you are contradicting yourself all over the place and also you choose to selectively ignore hard and fast facts / evidence as you are terrified of pulling your head out of the sand and seeing things for how they actually are – not in your ANC brainwashed dream world. I concur that as your Blog you have the freedom of speach to write about what you feel and your opinion, but then be prepared to enter into meaningful debate with those people like Wazza and myself who choose to pass comment – instead of ducking and diving the issues which are doing here. Let me give you a few examples. You state:

For instance in my reply to WazZA I mentioned the economy and he/she replies that it’s because of Trevor Manuel. DUH! The ANC put him in that position. Neither you nor WaZzA will concede anything, even when presented with a FACT.

You obviously never read what Wazza stated. He agrees that Trevor Manuel has done an excellent job with Macro Economic policy. I agree that Trevor Manuel has been the best finance minister this country has had in a long time. Absolutely no arguments here, BUT he is out after these Elections because the ANC has been taken over by the communists!! Wazza is pointing out this by saying ‘he was’ as in PAST TENSE Abigail because Wazza has sufficient brain capacity to know that Zuma’s ANC does not have a place for Mr. Manuel as their new direction and economic policy is based on communism and not free market principals which Manuel subscribes to. Read his statement again:

Trevor Manuel was a good minister of finance and that cant be argued – the credit act was a positive piece of legislation – But truthfuly exchange controls which were implemented a long time back are the real reason that South African banks were saved from the global financial crisis.

You claim the ANC saved this country from the Credit Crunch, yet it actually was the previous Nationalist government through ‘Exchange Controls’. Trevor Manuel was smart enough when he assumed office to retain certain of the previous ‘regimes’ polocies which he knew were good. Myself and Wazza have an open enough mind to see the good and bad in everything – yet when it suits you, you try and twist the information on your blog to suit your lack of argument.

The ANC inherited this mess and they’ve made progress, not as fast as they or we would like, but they’ve done so.

Abigail, to quote a famous Ronald Regan statement: THERE YOU GO AGAIN!! The ANC ‘inherited’ the finest infrastructure in the world and instead of using it to address the imbalances of the past they managed to (a) Fail to address the imbalances of the past and (b) Fuck up the infrastructure in the process – ESKOM being a perfect example of this. See Abigail all the tools were made available to the ANC by the previous government to address these pressing issues, yet 15 years down the line you guys are still making excuses for lack of service delivery and blaiming the previous administration for creating the problem. How do you ever expect to solve any problems when all you can do is blaim, blaim and blaim ???? Even Black people are sick and tired of the ANC constantly having to blaim the past for their present and even future failures. If you ‘inherited’ a thriving business from a previous administration, which had several faults that you wished to address, yet in 15 years you are unable to address those faults through nothing but your own incomptence, then is blaiming the previous owners of the business addressing the problem ???? Get this clear in that confused mind of yours: THERE IS NO FUTURE IN THE PAST!!! Any straight thinking person agree’s that Apartheid was a fuck up deluxe, but forever living in the past is NEVER and I mean NEVER going to address the current challenges facing the country. As long as the ANC employs people with your mindset they will be forever stuck in the past and thus remain a failure. You don’t need to be a rocket scientist to see that logic. Africa will forever be ‘mediocre’ at the very best as long as Africans (Whites, blacks, Coloured etc. all born in Africa are Africans) keep blaiming the ‘settlers’, Britian the USA etc. Mugabe has been blaiming every one of his failures on either Britian or the USA and look where that has taken Zimbabwe.

As I’ve asked WaZzA, what would you suggest the ANC do? Should they take the wealth from white South Africans where it’s still sitting and give it to the poor?

Abigail you are so far out of your depth in this debate it is frightning. When will you ANC people ever learn some fundamentals in life ? You can not Strengthen the weak by weakening the strong. In case you failed to read this, let me repeat myself: You can not Strengthen the weak by weakening the strong. Taking money from the Rich and giving it to the poor has never and will never solve the age old issue of ‘redistribution of wealth’. What should the ANC do ? Very simple Abigial, the ANC should start by learning a simple lesson. This lesson is about fishing and goes something like this: If you give a man fish …. he eats for one day. If you TEACH a man to fish he eats for the rest of his life.
Applying this logic Abigail the ANC’s number one priority should be to develop small business and foster Entrepreneurship at a grass roots level throughout the country. By emporing the masses of this country to start running their own business’s and creating an environment that is ‘small business friendly’ i.e. with tax concessions, access to cheap finance, business advisors etc. most of the severe issues facing this country can be resolved. Instead of doing this, the ANC has adopted the failed policies of the former Soviet Union at Polokwane in 2007 and believe that returning to a completely State controlled economy are the long term solutions to this country’s economic and social challenges. There are plenty of smart people out there Abigail that are very happy to help the ANC and provide them with suggestions on how to address issues – people such as Wazza yet the ANC are not interested because Wazza represents the ‘minority’. Why do you think ESKOM collapsed at the beggining of 2008 Abigail ? Through among other things the fact that they forced all the White Engineers and Managers with the skills and track record to administer the utility into ‘early retirement’. Your ‘My ANC! My Vision! My Future!’ got rid of people who could have shared their skills with Black people. They could have helped groom the future management of ESKOM to understand how to run a power company, yet instead they replaced all these whites with incompetent, greedy and corrupt ANC cadres who quit frankly did not have a clue what they were doing. One of the reasons why there was ‘load shedding’ was due to a lack of Coal. Why was this Coal in ‘shortage’ ? Simply put due to ESKOM awarding a B.E.E. tender to a Black logistics company. As was shown on Carte Blanche last year (You can view this documentary on YouTube.com) this B.E.E. ‘company’ was not even capable of ensuring delivery of Coal on time and the stockpiles that the previous Apartheid administration build up at each one of the power stations was depleted i.e. aerial footage of the site showed what it used to look like under Nat administration and now under ANC administration. Clear for the world to see is failed ANC policy at work here. The B.E.E. contractor was awarded the contract purely on the merits of his association the ANC – not because he was actually able to deliver.

I work with plenty of Black people in my job everyday Abigail and as Wazza said you are a very confused little girl making the next statement based on what is actually happening out there with Black business:

Instead the ANC chose the longer more difficult route to somehow find a way, through BEE to distribute some of the wealth more fairly.

Are you smoking a Mandrax pipe your side ? Abigail, B.E.E is an acronym for Black Elitest Enrichment. It has absolutely FUCK ALL to do with the ‘re-distribution’ of wealth to the masses. Most White people have seen through this bullshit years ago. The ANC may be able to fool people with limited intellect, but for those that have some IQ, it is clearly just another ANC policy formulated to benefit the Elite few holding office in the ruling administration. I know plenty of Black people who run their own business’s and they have not benefited from B.E.E. whatsoever simply because the awarding of contracts / tenders is going exclusively to ANC cadres. You can be as thick and as incompetent as they come, but as long as you support the ANC they will award you the contract over another Black person who has all the skills to accomplish the job, when the ANC cadre with his Grade 1 education is unable to even write or add two numbers together. Here you are having a go on your Blog about Hellen Zille, yet she exposed B.E.E. for what it really is in the City of Cape Town. Your ‘My ANC! My Vision! My Future!’ virtually bankrupted the City of Cape Town through their corruption and gross incompetence – that my friend is FACT and NOT my opinion. Zille brought that City back from the brink of collapse and one of the reasons for this was due to the awarding of ‘B.E.E. tenders’ during the ANC’s administration of the city itself. Zille terminated these contracts with ANC front companies / cadres and awarded them to Black business’s that are run as business and not political ‘branches’ of the ruling Elite. Once people who are actually able to do a job have been awarded a contract, problems can then be solved.

What must the ANC do, actually throw whites off the land they live in, take their money and give it to blacks? Do you want us to go the Zimbabwean way?

Because that is the only way that the past can be corrected.

Yes Abigail – throw the Whites off the farms and off the land they legally own, get them all to emigrate and watch how quickly this country will be flushed down the toilet. With this type of thinking why are you not a member of the Zanu-PF in Zimbabwe …. oh sorry .. I forgot you support the ANC who in turn is huge comrades with Robert Mugabe and Zanu PF. This explains your Zanu-PF mentality …. yet in earlier posts of yours you told me how much to depise Mugabe …. yet this poor confused little girl Abigail thinks that kicking Whites off farms is going to address the imbalances of the past.

Again Abigail you obviously are so ‘high’ in your ANC-cadre dreamland that you fail to see the reality of what has even occured to previously White owned farms in South Africa that the ANC took over. These farms were previously thriving – feeding the nation, creating much needed employment, yet a few years after your ‘My ANC! My Vision! My Future!’ took them over and gave them as normal to their B.E.E. cronies what is left of these farms is often just wild bush. Some have even been turned into makeshift soccer pitches. Now you wonder why South Africa which was formely a NET-EXPORTER of food is having to IMPORT food – thanks again to failed ANC policy. See Abigail your hatred for White people is clear for the world to see here, yet you fail to realize that now more than ever you need the expertise of White people to solve these problems. Your ‘My ANC! My Vision! My Future!’ made it very clear that Whites no longer play a roll in South Africa. B.E.E. or ‘Affirmative Action’ resulted in White people being passed up for job oppurtunities. As a result many White people have gone out and started their own business’s because they are getting on with things and unlike your ANC mob are not stuck to the past. Many Whites have emigrated and taken their skills with them to other countries – even African ones who welcome them with open arms. There are more and more African countries only too happy for Whites to come to their country and provide knowledge and skills. South Africa’s brain drain is another countries gain. You are 100% correct in saying Whites are indeed in the minority of South Africa’s population, but you see Abigail the ANC is terrified by Whites because they know that Whites do have a lot to contribute to this country, but through the ANC’s inability to swallow its own pride they will instead treat Whites with contempt and then they wonder why so many White has ‘emigrated’ to the Western Cape and why the DA is so well supported by White people. They are teriffied that a White woman like Helen Zille is going to show them up for what they really are, namely Association of National Criminals (ANC). You accuse Helen Zille of ‘knowing it all’, yet the ANC seems to ‘always know it all’ – yet they continue to fuck out time after time after time. I Abigail would be happy to vote for the ANC if I was guaranteed that as a White person my ideas and suggestions to address the many challenges of this country would be heard. But I am afraid not, because for me to be ‘heard’, I would have to become a member of the ANC and then learn the art of corruption, rape, incompetence etc. and that my friend is where I draw the line because I have morals. I am honest. I believe in hard work. I believe that the best person for the job should get the job – not due to his or her skin colour or political connections. Because the ANC does not subscribe to any of this, they are morally bankrupt and that is why I conclude by asking you this simple question: Are you a Criminal and do you support Crime & corruption as the key to solving South Africa’s problems ?

By Clubber on Mar 11, 2009 | Reply

I only see what I want to see ? How many issues have I raised above that you have completely ignored ? See Abigail YOU see only those things that you like about the ANC …. so yes, best of luck and be grateful you living in the Western Cape my friend because come the 23rd of April 2009 once the votes are counted, your ANC brethren will be out of power in the Western Cape (Good riddance) and the DA will be taking over and then you will experience the true meaning of service delivery thanks to corruption free administration.

If you don’t like being under ZILLE management by the 23rd of April 2009 …. then …. to quote yourself … TOUGH.

By WaZzA on Mar 11, 2009 | Reply

Trevor Manuel and I say again was an excellent minister of finance. But is this one reason enough to vote ANC or to continue to support them when they clearly have lost their path? Thanks for stating the obvious – all this time I though they just materialized from somewhere out of the blue… Of course they garnered real grass support over the years – they WERE an honorable organization, but don’t tell me the founding fathers of old Lutili, Sisulu, Mandela, Mbeki snr. Etc would support the current direction the ANC is taking. They would be mightily shocked and disappointed I would think that the organization of the people has began (and quite successfully to) to steal from the people, to allow AIDS to spread almost unchecked amongst the people and to allow them to live in a constant state of misery ravaged by crime and unemployment?
The idea that white land has to be taken to re-distribute wealth is so foolish – why does one have to not have so the other can have? Look at Zimbabwe since you mention it – a corrupt dictator stayed in power for 20 years and did nothing to re-distribute land – only when he was threatened at the polls (by another black party I might add) he then using the tactic of farm invasions – brilliant policy, sure it would work out great here in RSA. A better idea to re-distribute wealth… shucks… hmm how about real job creation, real agricultural training projects, grow industry in previously disadvantaged areas are a few things that pop into my mind. You are aware that BEE has benefitted the same individuals over and over again. Go through a list of BEE deals and the same names and faces pop up time after time. There has never been any serious attempt to re-distribute wealth under the ANC. It blows the mind that someone who writes political blogs see that throwing whites off their land is the only way to re-distribute wealth… mind blowing.
You fail to see that Zuma is the face and no amount of “the ANC was there before they were..” is going to change this current fact. It has become the Zuma/Malema show with COSATU now beating the drum. The poster Clubber is 100% correct when he makes this point.
Abigail – with your vote or not you will be living in a DA run province come post election time – I promise you that. People from across the color and gender lines are starting to see the ANC for the criminal organization that they are. I was at gatherings in Philipi and Langa recently and it will blow YOUR mind to see and feel the anti ANC sentiments that are on display in areas that before were ANC strongholds.
Carry on deluding yourself Abigail, thinking that the ANC is the party of the people, but thankfully there are many people across the Western Cape and RSA who understand what the ANC is actually about.

By Abdullah Soloman on Mar 11, 2009 | Reply

Ek sal skenk aan sien iemand soos clubber debat hierdie dwase. hy het verkry hul getal – Ek wil boek hom om te doen ‘n spraak hier in mitchells plain. meeste van ons alreeds saamstem met sy besigtigings op die anc. …

By Clubber on Mar 11, 2009 | Reply

Wazza exceptionally well put!! There are none so blind as those who REFUSE to see. Miss Abrahams is very much part of the blind. See she is way, way out of her depth here – as is most ANC politicians. You can see she has come out of some ANC brainwashing programme because she SELECTIVELY chooses to ignore the points that are 100% valid. The B.E.E. issue is one of them. I went to great length to provide her with a REAL LIFE example of B.E.E. at work with regards to the ESKOM collapse last January 2008 (Shortages of Coal supplies due to B.E.E. incompetence) and she completely IGNORES this. Both you and me AGREE with her that Trevor Manuel was an excellent finance minister and then all she can respond with is:

You only see what you want to see. You refuse to see my side and that’s fine by me.

What exactly is she reffering to with the comment ‘You refuse to see my side’ ??? Is she perhaps reffering to Apartheid again ? I can’t debate with someone on a constructive level if they playing these stupid little girlish games. She needs to spell it out exactly what she feels we ‘don’t see’.

What I do see is that she like a typical politician is IGNORING valid ….. sorry VERY valid points made. Another example of this is that I ask her the closing question: You only see what you want to see. You refuse to see my side and that’s fine by me.

Her response:

You asked me questions, I replied to them point by point. That’s how I experience living in South Africa.

Aaaaahh …. sorry … you actually have not answered my questions or responded to my comments because deep down in her heart she knows she is unable to respond. The track record of the ANC speaks volumes and there for all to see. She does not like Zuma or Malema but seems to think come April the 22nd 2009 that perhaps Michael Jackson’s face will appear on the ballot paper next to the ANC logo instead of Jacob Zuma and then she does not have to spoil her vote. How blind is she not to see the direction the ANC is going in ????

Both you and me have applauded the former ANC organization. We both stated that it WAS a great organization which had great leaders yet all she see’s is our respective grievances we have with what the ANC has become. She is unable to see beyond this. Furthermore she is unable to provide any decent argument in support of her belief that the ANC is NOT representative of the Jacob Zuma’s of this world. She very clearly did not understand what occured at Polokwane in December 2007 within her own organization. 41% of the ANC itself did NOT vote for Zuma (59% Zuma 41% Mbeki). Alarm bells should be ringing in her head that almost half her organization does NOT support Zuma. She also very clearly has not seen the shift within in the ANC towards the alliance partners of COSATU and the SACP. She claims to be this die-hard, life long ANC supporter, yet you and me, NON-ANC members know more about the organization and its history than she does! Zuma has a lot of favours he now owes to his comrades in the Alliance and that is why the organization has shifted so much in this direction.

She also fails to understand the concept of an ‘Open Opportunity Society’ that the DA and Helen Zille are offering in contrast to the closed, patronage driven Crony / buddy-buddy model of the ANC with its ‘smokescreen’ of B.E.E. that virtually every person in this country has seen through years ago. She fails to understand at the most basic level how corruption works against even the best efforts of those well meaning folk within the ANC. Yes – there are people within the ANC that I am sure are trying to serve the people such as Trevor Manuel, but all Mr. Manuel’s efforts to improve for example the efficiency of Tax Collection in this country are negated once a corrupt departmental official e.g. Tony Yengeni starts spending the money on luxury 4×4′s, or for example R 60.00 Billion worth of armaments that this country never needed. She just does not have the mental capacity to understand that when well meaning people within the ANC are up against leaders at the very pinnacle of the organization who are corrupt how do you expect to ever address the problems at grass roots levels ??

Wazza I am with you my man all the way with your comments about Abigail being under a Helen Zille administration. I attended a Rally here in Gauteng last week and I concur with what you are experiencing down in the Western Cape (I live in Gauteng). There are numerous people up here who used to support the ANC and now finally have seen them for what they are: Association of National Criminals. They are sick and tired of the looting, the self enrichment by the select few (Sexwale etc.) The ANC is so fucking arrogant that they seem to believe they will be in power until ‘Jesus Christ’ returns. After all that is what Zuma himself said …… At the current rate they are losing support I personally don’t see this mob lasting beyond 2014 especially once the rest of South Africa has seen by 2014 what the DA are going to achieve in the Western Cape. I think Abigail might consider emigrating to the Eastern Cape which has by far and away the strongest ANC support …. only problem is that funny now that I think about this one … is this not also not the most poverty ridden region in South Africa ??? No … Miss Abrahams will rather live in the Western Cape where a White woman was voted World Mayor of the year and delude herself into thinking that the ANC is still running the City of Cape Town which it virtually bankrupted during it tenure.

By Clubber on Mar 11, 2009 | Reply

You are almost as delusional as Helen Zille. I answered you point for point – what more do you want? A pound of flesh?

No you have not responded to the points I raise. You have ducked and dived them as you have done with other Bloggers on this forum. Once more go back and read the comments made here and respond to them. We can go back and forth like this until ‘Jesus Christ’ returns my friend until you have provided responses to the VALID issues I have raised. Instead you are making wild accusations claiming that myself and Helen Zille are delusional. I will publically debate any ANC politician, anwhere, anytime and for nothing!! The longer you duck and dive the FACTS the more you are actually validating my comments. See the ANC may be able to brainwash brain-dead, uneducated people, but why there is so much anti-ANC sentiment on the Web (You yourself have admitted to this on your Blogs) is because people who generally have a resonable IQ use computers and can see straight through what the ANC has become. Since you no doubt continue to INGORE everything I have just said here, I do have one point I wish to draw all Bloggers attention to as follows:

Do yourselves a favour and visit Miss Abraham’s ANC Website at the following URL and read one of the election manifesto promises from 2004 that the ANC broke:

http://www.anc.org.za/elections/2004/manifesto/manifesto.html

Scroll down and note the follow 2004 PROMISE to the people of South Africa under the sub-heading ‘Crime and Corruption’. Here for all to see and Miss Abrahams is the following:

Strengthen the prosecution system and the Scorpions ……

Well, well, well ……. hmmmmmmmmm …. let me see now ….. was it not My ANC! My Vision! My Future which chose to disband the Scorpions this very year and not even put it to a referendum of the people of South Africa ? This is an election manifesto promise that the ANC renaged on ……… yet Miss Abrahams no doubt will choose to ignore this very VALID point I raise as she has jack shit, fuck all response for this. Sorry … maybe she will blaim the Apartheid regime for the disbanding of the Scorpions.

How can anyone vote for an organization which goes against the very promise that is still available on their Web Site dating back to 5 years ago ? Obviously only people like Abigail Abrahams …. blinded by the ANC ‘light’.

By Clubber on Mar 11, 2009 | Reply

6. I am well aware that BEE has made only a few people rich – which is why I’m not a COPE supporter. At least it’s not making more white people rich off the hard work of black South Africans. The alternative to not having rich entrepreneurs is having a socialist or even communist country where everyone shares equally in the wealth – and everyone is poor. We live in a relatively free market society, certain people are more inclined to be go getters and they succeed. That’s life.

Where exactly is B.E.E. ‘making more white people rich off the hard work of black South Africans’ ? When I last looked B.E.E. is making Black people such as Tokyo Sexwale ultra rich off the hard work of black South Africans …. or better put ‘off the hard work of SOUTH AFRICANS’ as a whole. Kindly elaborate on this statement Abigail as B.E.E. was purely an ANC invention and has absolutely nothing to do with White People or any colour of skin in this country other than the Elite within the ANC themselves as all the contracts and deals done under the disguise of B.E.E. is all for the ANC’s coffers. What do you know my sweet child about ‘CHANCELLOR HOUSE’ ? Research this if you not sure and please get back to us with an answer because as I previously stated you are out of your depth in this debate. I have access to concrete proof that B.E.E. has NEVER benefited any White person in this country so be very careful when you make such ridiculous statements.

Furthermore if you take the time to study what COPE has stated about B.E.E. you will see that they themselves actually concur and agree that B.E.E. has been a complete failure as well as ‘Affirmative Action’ and that they would address this the same way Helen Zille of the Democratic Alliance is doing in the City of Cape Town, namely: Awarding of business / tenders to companies that can actually do the work / meet the requirements of the tender and not be awared a contract on the strength of their ties to the ruling ANC elite.

By WaZzA on Mar 11, 2009 | Reply

Hello Abigail
Thank you for your response.
1. As far as Mr. Manuel goes I do think he was a great finance minister with no veiled anything – he was god at what he did and that cant be argued.
2. I understand Manuel isn’t why YOU support the ANC. But from my point of view Trevor Manuel and his success as F.M. isn’t reason enough to over-look the serious failings of the organization over the last 15 years. Of course the ANC fought the Apartheid Gov. and that’s why they were genuinely popular amongst grass roots South Africans – but I ask you because someone/something was once your “liberator” do you owe them your vote for the rest of your life even if they are not doing a great job? I don’t think the ANC deserve to stay in power based on their track record. Simple. Mugabe too was a “liberator” but does he deserve to stay in power indefinitely even if he’s doing a terrible job? Again I think the answer is a simple no.
3. There is no honour in the amount of corruption, mismanagement and nepotism that have taken place on the ANC’s watch. There were many challenges that they ANC had to face when they took over sure, but to say the country was a total disaster is un-realistic. Socially there were many issues the ANC had to tackle, but with regards to infrastructure – roads, telecoms, transportation and agriculture the ANC took over the powerhouse of Africa and if used correctly they could have done more for the people sooner.
4. Of course AIDS didn’t start under the ANC but for 15 years this disease has been allowed to spread unchecked while the ANC leadership wasn’t in agreement on what to do to tackle the problem. As mentioned yes Manto and Thabo were a disaster and the fact that they don’t anymore decide policy in this regard in great, but you cant gloss over the fact that 15 years have passed by – with countless millions becoming needlessly infected.
5. Houses are cheap when you talking about billions of rand to spend, that is if corruption, theft and mismanagement don’t scuttle any project that gets off the ground. Where to get the money? That’s easy, RSA wouldn’t ever have had to borrow for this as our taxes and other government revenues are more than enough to get most of the people housed with running water and electricity. Billions have been stolen via corruption – that’s a billion with a “B” Do you know how many houses this represents when you put this figure in bricks and mortor terms? Many, many houses…
If the ANC had applied a “public works” idea , (a socialistic concept in essence but perhaps best applied by the Americans under FDR to rebuild their country.) and allowed NGO’s to manage and audit the process(with no BEE interference) there wouldn’t be this dire housing situation that we are seeing now 15 years after they came into power.
6. Like it or not BEE was an ANC policy, and under the ANC it will continue, just a few of the faces will now change. I am happy we are in agreement on this one thing – I wouldn’t vote COPE either, as it was only formed to make sure a small group of people are not left off the gravy train completely. That’s true certain people will always do better than others, but they must have an equal chance, which of course in SA was never the case. Bu to re-address this imbalance in our society enriching a few individuals at the top will do nothing. Grass roots job creation and training as well as education are the great equalizers that the ANC should have made top priority when they took over from the NP in 1994. Do you know that if the ANC had implemented proper sports training policies in schools the year it came to power we would now be seeing that generation of sportmen and women coming through in their various disciplines, but instead the ANC uses a quota system years into its reign to re-adress this problem. Did you watch our shocking performance at Beijing 2008 by any chance? That was the best proof of yet another failed/non-existant policy of our beloved government under the ANC.
7. Obviously the one is a person the other an entity, however the reality is the JZ is the front man for the ANC and for the foreseeable future he wont be going anywhere. So for the next two terms if the ANC were re-elected twice you’d be happy to be an ANC supporter even if the front man the president of the organization is someone you dislike? I don’t understand that Abigail, and for the life of me I’m trying – I promise, but it makes no sense to me.
8. We will see soon and no doubt we will still be blogging about it  but I feel that the DA will win the province, and hopefully after a term under DA administration you will have slightly different views on the DA and Zille.

By ghwappie on Mar 11, 2009 | Reply

Abigail, I feel truly sorry for you. From your comments about pre-1994 South Africa it is crystal clear that you weren’t even around then, yet you feel qualified to comment about it. You fall hook, line and sinker for populist propaganda, and do not even go to the trouble to check out the facts for yourself. Speaking of which: The facts (YES, FACTS!!!) about what the DA did in Cape Town is brushed off by yourself as propaganda. Exactly who the fuck do you think you are? Once you finish school, you might see what a fool tyou made of yourself. I’m gonna tell your mommy. And yes, I’m COLOURED like you are, and PROUD OF IT!

By WaZzA on Mar 11, 2009 | Reply

Hi Abigail,

Yes they could indeed have the same IP as me as I do most of my blogging etc. @ a big internet cafe here in town. I am also pretty vocal when blogging so I may have brought you a few more bloggers/debators. You’ll be happy to know that there was a woman here earlier who shared your sentiments on the “blonde crusader” The cafe turned into an episode of 3rd degree for for a while earlier lol

By Clubber on Mar 13, 2009 | Reply

Funny how I don’t feel out of my depth at all or you esteemed person that you are, wouldn’t be wasting your precious time on a “sweet child” – neither of which I am, by the way.

The COPE faction of the ANC were in power since 1998 and even before if you are to believe that Nelson Mandela left the running of the country to Thabo Mbeki as far back as 1994. They sure put BEE in place – something that was necessary mind you. Now that they’re trying to reach a wider voter base, they change their tune.

THERE YOU GO AGAIN!! The ANC response to any failure is to blaim something other than the ANC. In this case because you refuse to debate me on the failure of B.E.E. and actually admit it has not worked except to enrich the elite few Tokyo Sexwale’s of this world, you now are suggesting that the ANC has been a ‘COPE’ faction in the past and they were responsible for failed policy like B.E.E. Hahahahahahaha ….. typicl, typical ANC. What about all the former Apartheid folk from the National party that was absorbed into the ANC ?? I suppose that also was the ‘COPE’ faction in the ANC prior to the organization split ? So let me understand this then: Every failure of the ANC is actually to do with the ‘COPE faction’ that was in the ANC and that the ANC now that they have ‘got rid’ of the ‘COPE faction’ are now 100% clean and perfect ?

By Clubber on Mar 13, 2009 | Reply

Guys this Abigail is a joke like Malema. You can’t debate with her because she IGNORES virtually every valid point published here. This is why both Zuma & Malema are terrified of engaging in a public debate with the lead of the official opposition because it is ANC cadre policy to avoid responding to valid issues at all costs because they have no answers for their failures. So let’s all pretend I never wrote the below comment on her blog:

Do yourselves a favour and visit Miss Abraham’s ANC Website at the following URL and read one of the election manifesto promises from 2004 that the ANC broke:

http://www.anc.org.za/elections/2004/manifesto/manifesto.html

Scroll down and note the follow 2004 PROMISE to the people of South Africa under the sub-heading ‘Crime and Corruption’. Here for all to see and Miss Abrahams is the following:

Strengthen the prosecution system and the Scorpions ……

Well, well, well ……. hmmmmmmmmm …. let me see now ….. was it not My ANC! My Vision! My Future which chose to disband the Scorpions this very year and not even put it to a referendum of the people of South Africa ? This is an election manifesto promise that the ANC renaged on ……… yet Miss Abrahams no doubt will choose to ignore this very VALID point I raise as she has jack shit, fuck all response for this. Sorry … maybe she will blaim the Apartheid regime for the disbanding of the Scorpions.

How can anyone vote for an organization which goes against the very promise that is still available on their Web Site dating back to 5 years ago ? Obviously only people like Abigail Abrahams …. blinded by the ANC ‘light’.

By WaZzA on Mar 13, 2009 | Reply

Abigail,
1. The point is not how Mugabe won but whether or not you keep a party in power (who has failed to do its job) based on nostalgia? Crazy to think that because the ANC was once liberator that must get your vote for the rest of time.
3. You are far too quick to overlook their corruption and if I may say quite naïve as to its extent. Billions and Billions of rands – but its ok right? Not everybody in gov. is stealing so then its fine…
4. What “bit” exactly did Thabo and Manto do to stall AIDS? Conferences filled with medical reprobates to debate the cause of HIV/AIDS – brilliant policy.
5. No I’m not simplifying anything – bottom line is the untold BILLIONS of rand stolen equal/represent a fortune of houses. The fact that most housing projects in this country since 1994 have been marred by corruption, theft and mismanagement is undeniable. Abigail on this point I know first hand the games that are played with regards to the “housing queue”. Friends, family and anyone willing to give a bit under the table are pushed to the front of the queue – very fair, very democratic right?
6. Ok Abigail, on an earlier post you said “I am well aware that BEE has made only a few people rich – which is why I’m not a COPE supporter.” And now ” I don’t begrudge entrepreneurs enriching themselves.” Neither do I Abigail, hard work and enterprising spirit are one thing, but I do begrudge it being done under the guise of wealth distribution. Especially when the poorest in our country are in such need. You do contradict yourself Abigail – no question about it
7. Agree? No I asked a question which I’ll ask again “So for the next two terms if the ANC were re-elected twice you’d be happy to be an ANC supporter even if the front man the president of the organization is someone you dislike?” Abigail if you want to use your chocolate analogy I see it like this “ you tell me you love chocolate, and talk of it in glowing terms sure but you also tell me that you really don’t like one particular chocolate – now if that one particular chocolate was the only thing on sale for the foreseeable future the logical result would be you not buying any – no?
8. No Abigail its not that I point blank just decide “not to see the ANC in a positive light” I base my opinion on track record, performance and what I feel the people of SA deserve – I don’t base this opinion on color or race Abigail – if they ANC had stuck to their promises I would be voting for them and would have no problem doing so, but they have lied to the people, stolen from the people and in all fairness have sold the people’s dreams down the river. Everything I have said “negative” about the ANC I back up with facts Abigail. Sure this is a blogsite, and opinion is what its all about, but when someone has a different opinion to another they discuss the facts. Unfortunatly Abigail your dislike of the DA and Mrs Zille are personal – you are entitled to that opinion, but truthfully you have backed it up with very little fact other than a few examples of how Zille comes across as condescending – hardly important in the big scheme of things. No its not the DEMs vs REPS in the states, as in every election you have voters that change based on performance of the last gov. and what the future candidates positions on the isssues are. After such a terrible job that George W. did how could Americans put republicans into power? Exactly they couldn’t, which is what I feel about the ANC, they have not performed well its time for somebody else to be given a chance to run things. Also Abigail its interesting that you make this comparison when a few posts ago you said there is no need for the ANC to debate the opposition party – now you do realize that the democrats and the republicans in the states debate each other constantly?

By WaZzA on Mar 13, 2009 | Reply

Look Clubber no one who understands the amount of theft and corruption taking place in this country are confused as to why the scorpions were disbanded. They were bad for business simple! The business of stealing that is.

Jackie Selebie was close friends with an organised crime boss in jhb with proven links to hijacking sydicates. FACT

The masses may be brainwashed by ANC propaganda that painted the picture of the Scorpions as an “apartheid force” but as I said for anyone who knows what is going on behind the scenes its obvious.

Any critical thinking South Africa looking at whats happened on the ANC’s watch over the last 15 years has to be completely disenchanted.

By WaZzA on Mar 13, 2009 | Reply

Clubber – “Apartheid folk from the np”
This point always amazes me. There is no level low enough that politicians wont stoop. The ANC often plays the race card and when it suits them to associate something with apartheid(like the Scorpions) but they will have no problem getting into bed with these same people that years before wouldnt let black south africans sit on a park benches? Martinus Van Schalk vuyk typified the sinking ship mentality of the NP – what a snake. The ANC should have let the NP die its natural death, but when it suited them to put a few more seats under the ANC banner they welcomed them with open arms. Whatever is good for business obviously…

By Clubber on Mar 13, 2009 | Reply

Clubber,

You are seemingly not open to my point of view, so I’ve reached the end of this particular thread with you.

Abigail both myself and Wazza are more than opinion to your point of view. You are the one who is unable to respond to FACTS that myself and Wazza have published on your Blog. I can prove this quit simply by stating that when you have made mention of issues pertaining to the ANC, we have responded to them with our points of view which are backed up by actual FACTS. As I explained many posts ago, there is a difference between ‘opinion’ and ‘fact’. Opinion pertains exclusively to a persons way of looking at things / interpretation. Where ‘fact’ is backed up by proof / evidence and generally can never be argued. In the field of Economics for example you have two types of ‘Economic Statements’ as follows:

(a) Positive Economic Statements
(b) Normative Economic Statements

Positive Economic statements represent actual FACT e.g. Trevor Manuel is currently the world’s longest serving finance minister. This can not be argued or disputed.

Normative Economic Statements represent personal opinion and are Subjective e.g. Consumer goods are cheap in South Africa.

With regards to all these posts both myself and Wazza have provided you with ‘Positive Statements’ i.e. FACT. Both myself and Wazza have focused on FACT and not our personal opinion yet you keep saying that we don’t see your point of view. I am having great difficulty trying to wrap my mind around this one because you seem incapable of actually addressing the FACTS raised. Instead you either completely ignore points raised on this forum or you say ‘You don’t see my point of view’. How do you expect us to see your point of view when you completely ignore / disregard many of the statements Bloggers make on this forum ?

A point in case is that note once, but TWICE now I have stated that the ANC went against its 2004 Election Manifesto by the disbanding of the Scorpions. TWICE now you have completely ignored this. Abigail if you wish to write your opinion about your complete hatred for Mrs. Zille and the DA I for one have no issues with this whatsoever because that is your Democratic right i.e. freedom of speech. I don’t either believe that Wazza or other Bloggers on this forum object, however by doing so, you going to obviously attract other Bloggers to comment on your comments. Not once have I critized you for your dislike for Mrs. Zille because instead I have tried to enter into a meaningful debate with you on the points you make and without fail I am backing up all my arguments with FACTS i.e. hard and faced evidence to support what I am saying. Surely the entire purpose of writing a Blog is to:

(a) First get your feelings / opinion into the public domain;
(b) Then invite other people’s feedback.

Through the process of feedback we often get to see the ‘big picture’ because there are a lot of people out there who have more knowledge on subjects than both you and me. These people will often point out errors in your reasoning or argument. This is the entire premise behind Democracy i.e. allowing human beings the freedom of both speech and expression. Through this process we ALL learn and grow. If anything you purposely are setting out your stall to write articles that are highly debatable, knowing that you going to attract the Wazza’s and Clubber’s of this world and then when we do post responses you IRGNORE the lions share of our feedback. You contradict yourself. In other words it appears you wish to draw your ‘opponent’ in for a debate, but then when your ‘opponent’ responds you disregard virtually everything they have said. What then is the purpose of your Blog if you are not prepared to enter into constructive debate ?

Abigail I have attended ANC’s Rally’s myself and the forum does not exist to go to the Rally and question the speaker and debate on policy. That is FACT. As soon as you raise your voice and for example ask for the thinking behind a specific policy, they want to lynch you mob style. How dare you question the ANC!!! This means in essence it is the same as administering a business, telling your staff that you wish to have weekly meetings to discuss issues, raise grievances and most importantly solicit your staff’s feedback to improve the business, but then when your staff do contribute by making suggestions you totally ignore them i.e. what then is the point of evening having these meetings if people can’t learn from each other ?

You have shut your mind off completely to the Alternatives that exist outside your ANC world and thus unable to debate constructively. You very fortunate that you do not have to debate me on National TV concerning the ANC because if the country was watching, they would witness a crucifiction in action because most human beings look for the tell tale signs which are: Failure to address a question means you hiding something or you uncomfortable answering because you might actually prove the other party right. I recently watched a live show on a Saturday on the E-News channel in which a member of the Zanu-PF from Zimbabwe was in South Africa taking questions from a live studio audience. He made such a Monkey of himself and actually proved how Fucked up Zanu-PF and Mugabe are as well as Arrogant because he simply ignored the questions being asked. After the show they interviewed some of the people from the audience (Some even were from the ANC’s alliance partners in COSATU) for which the consensus was that this guy knew his party has failed, knew that Mugabe is a FUCK UP of Epic proportions because of his failure to engage in debate. You then wonder why Zimbabwe has failed because the criminals running that country (into the ground may I add) are not prepared to engage in Debate. No political party is perfect and never will be. No company M.D. is perfect and never will be, however those leaders, managers etc. who are prepared to open their minds up to the difference between THEIR own personal opinion and FACT and then say: You made a good point – I did not think about it that way! Those are the leaders & managers who grow and don’t live the rest of their natural existence in (a) Ignorance and (b) Pretending to themselves that there is no room for improvement / advancement.

By Clubber on Mar 13, 2009 | Reply

It’s not too long before 22 April, then we’ll put to the test just how many supporters the ANC has lost.

If the ANC increases it’s majority it will be because of people like you who can’t see past your noses that many people on the ground feel that they have benefited a lot more from an ANC government.

Yes Abigail, it is not long to go until the Elections and NO, the ANC is not going to have a snowballs chance in hell of increasing its Majority unless of course they pull a Robert Mugabe and RIG these elections – that’s something I would not put past them. Here is something interesting for all viewers of your Blog to read:

Firstly, when the ANC was in full cry (1999; 2004) they (in its original, united format) were receiving upper 60′s in support. A lot has happened since then and the country has changed markedly. But to keep it simple, lets say that ANC and COPE support, when added together, should come to between 70-75%. In other words, the broad ANC is dominant as it always was.

The second indisputable fact is one that is really picked up on by the media. But it is absilutely crucial nonetheless. Jacob Zuma won at Polokwane – but only with 59% of the vote. A full 40% of the ANC did not vote for him (in a secret ballot). This is not an opinion poll. Nor was it a vote of the upper, ruling elite. It is the best measure of grass-roots ANC support for the two factions.

Simple Maths tells us that 60% of 70% is equal to 42%. I’m not asking for miracles – I’m not even asking for a change in the reality of the political situation. In the 2009 general elections, if SA voters vote the way they did in 2004, and if ANC supporters vote the way they did at Polokwane, Zuma’s ANC will fall well short of the 50% needed to rule the country without a coalition partner.

This brings me on to my third and final point – one that is equally important. Quite simply: The ANC has no friends. The magic of Mandela is gone. Faith in the Mbeki Project has evaporated. Zuma will enjoy no honeymoon. A coalition with the DA is unthinkable. The ID, once partners in 2004 and 2006, has – with the coloured vote – turned sharply into opposition. Julius Malema has insulted Buthelezi’s wife (and every other party for that matter). The ACDP is fed up – as is just about everyone else – the PAC, UDM, UCDP… quite simply the ANC will not find a coalition partner anywhere.

This is absolutely groundbreaking! I do not for a minute dispute that the ANC will “win” the elections, insofar as they get the most votes. Hey, my analysis says they could easily get twice as many votes as their nearest competitor. But according to the Constitution that counts for absolutely nothing at all. What matters is who can put together a coalition of parties that gets more than 50% of the vote.

Now, I can already hear the explanations coming thick and fast. Yes, but the masses will vote for the ANC regardless. Those who voted for Mbeki will remain loyal to the ANC. Zuma is charming the masses. Polokwane was a long time ago – the masses will have forgotten any hard feelings.

This is the debate, I feel, that is critical one when analysing this election. Let me quickly introduce a statistic I call the X-factor: the proportion of traditional ANC support that will defect specifically to COPE. I mentioned earlier that the big ANC had about 70-75% support. Some of that will be lost to the DA, ID (lots of coloureds will vote elsewhere), the ACDP etc. And lets say that a roughly equal number of Zulus will shift from the IFP to Zuma’s ANC. Basically, what I’m saying is lets presume that the big ANC’s support is still at 70%. I don’t think this is too controversial. Some may say that the Zulu vote pushes it up higher – I don’t think so. The IFP was weakened last time round so most Zulus were already voting ANC before Zuma came along. Besides, this should be balanced by many who will ditch the ANC to go to the DA.

So then, if broad ANC support stands at 70%, what X-factor is required to push Zuma into opposition? In other words, what proportion of old ANC voters need to defect to COPE to push the 2009 ANC below 50%? The maths is fairly simple: if 21 out of 70 leave to go to COPE, Zuma will be left with 49. 21 out of 70 is exactly 30%. So to push the ANC below 50% nationally, COPE doesn’t have to win MORE than Zuma. The DA doesn’t have to make massive inroads into the ANC vote. Buthelezi doesn’t have to hang on to the Zulus. All that needs to happen is that COPE must take three out of ten ANC voters with them. Considering that Mbeki won four out of ten ANC voters at Polokwane, this may seem in the ball park… Put another way – Zuma has to win 70% of ANC supporters to win this election. Anything less and he’s in real, real trouble.

By Thetroublemaker on Mar 25, 2009 | Reply

Wonderful post. Its curious how badly behaved Mrs Zille is, what is even more curious is how little criticism there is out there. Its great to see someone else taking flack for this.

Keep up the good work

JP